Curse

Sarevok Thordin · Jul 25, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

This thread fails.

Extra slots are EXTRA, not MANDITORY.

Get over it.

azunder · Jul 25, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

This thread fails.

Extra slots are EXTRA, not MANDITORY.

Get over it.

What the OP is saying is that extra slots are officially EXTRA but the advantage they give could be MANDATORY to success. Since everyone wants to succeed, it becomes unofficially mandatory.

A good example of this is PvE vs PvP chars. PvE chars are optional in PvP because PvP chars get the same gear. But, if you're really serious about PvPing, you'd want a PvE char because you get more items and armor in your backpack. The advantage it gives makes in mandatory for success (But player skill is a much bigger factor, of course).

But extra player slots? I don't think it gives you an unfair advantage.

Batou of Nine · Jul 25, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

WOW mods PLEASE close this thread soon. There is no reasoning with the OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

All these extra abilities stacked onto a players account and we're only a few posts into the discussion....Sounds like your account has a whole boatload of access than mine doesn't and you haven't bought another game to get it. Sounds like your account has a clear advantage over mine; no skill on your part, just part with 10 bucks. Sounds like Character slots increase content.

And it still sounds like GW just became Pay to Upgrade...

LoL, you have not read the arguments, and you seem to refuse to listen to reason.

1. Neither Tear nor Jetdoc were supporting you, they were saying you are wrong.
2. Again, it is OPTIONAL content. You dont have to buy it, stop complaining.
3. Your above quotes are pure ignorance...

Purchasable Character slots do not equal in game abilities, nor an advantage
More slots simply means more options for PvE class usage and storage space.
In terms of PvP, absolutely no advantage, as any regular PvP'er has a dedicated PvP slot to roll whatver needed.
In terms of unlocking skills for PvP, sure you ahve more characters to run through PvE while unlocking skills. In the same amount of time to do that for all classes, one could use one single PvE chara in arenas, get easy Balths Faction and unlock to their heart's desires.
Storage space? More slots (which is only advantagious to PvE)? So whats wrong again?
Did i mention all the purchasable new content is OPTIONAL?
It is added content, not an upgrade, it is OPTIONAL added content (again!)

There is so many more points i could add, but i dont want to dwell. If you cannot understand Anet's decisions to charge for certain added content, then stop playing. Nuff said.

Asrial · Jul 25, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by azunder

What the OP is saying is that extra slots are officially EXTRA but the advantage they give could be MANDATORY to success. Since everyone wants to succeed, it becomes unofficially mandatory.

Remember how, back in the day, you used to talk to your kids on the way to school but now it's almost mandatory to have a portable DVD player to keep them occupied?

Guess I must have turned out pretty RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up by not having that portable DVD player!

The OP's ability to play 4 character Prophecies with no material storage is not diminished in any shape or form by any of the current additions to the game, 14 months later.

Alfrond · Jul 25, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

My one question for the OP would be:

What is your alternative solution?

Some people are currently unhappy with the number of slots available to them. They want more. Currently their options are to make do with what they have or buy a new account. Buying a new account obviously has some annoying problems for the player. To solve this problem Anet is willing to sell individual slots that you can merge with your account. For people desperate for slots its win-win. Many people have already shown that they are okay with paying for slots, they just now get to do it in an easier manner.

Would you (the OP) prefer Anet to give you some more slots for free, would you like them to reduce the price of the slots, or would you prefer to not have the option to buy more slots?

tear · Jul 25, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

that's just it - he thinks my argument only proves him right

he's completely wrong

this is a simple case of him not wanting to pay for something he wants and, if i can't have it, no one else can!

the players spoke: they wanted the option to buy more character slots. it was their idea
their wish was granted
you're in the extreme minority here, and even if you weren't, you're still wrong

they benefit, ANET benefits, and even you benefit because further monetary support, no matter how small, is being provided for the company, allowing them to continue to develop and support the game

you don't have to pay anything, and your gaming experience isn't hurt at all. your The Deep situation is ridiculous

even if you want to get pedantic and stretch this option into the "content" it's not:

Quote:

You do not have to pay for the streaming updates that will take place on a regular basis, nor for additional content that we will provide between the chapters of Guild Wars.

well there you go, you don't have to pay! because it's optional

close thread

ChaoticCoyote · Jul 25, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

I'm not at all bothered by this. I doubt I'll be buying any character slots anyway, since I have two open slots at the moment. I just don't have time to deidcate to more then two or three characters anyway.

I won't get grumpy against ANet *unless* they don't provide a Factions-like "+2 slots" with Nightfall. I pay $50 for Nightfall, I expect to get a couple of additional character slots.

TheMosesPHD · Jul 25, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Thank you Tear, Jetdoc, for proving my point.

Hidden Fee bacause it was not there a year ago at time of purchase. Its a fee, and an add on. And obviously a very poewrful add-on for those who choose to use it. In PvE, it allows flexibility between characters; if you can play any proffesion at will, there is no longer a need to reroll, no more need to run the leveling tread mill to get the next FoTM build straight to your farm. Just run the desired toon there and boom; start killing.

Those players that do NOT buy it are suddenly at a disadvantage to those who do. "Sry; I didn't buy the extra character slots so I don't have the Ranger your team needs for the Deep."

Where'd you grow up kid? Barney's fantasy playworld? This is called life. Nothing is "fair" or even-steven. Whoever has more resources has an advantage, that's a universal truth that you should've come to accept a long time ago. But just because one person has more resources, doesn't mean that we can't still play the game ourselves.

Buying extra slots is no more a hidden fee then upgrading to power windows is when you buy a new car. It's not like your car is gonna suck ass because it doesn't have power windows. It still gets you were you need to go.

Wanna have more resources? Wanna have more slots? Work more hours or rob a bank or something and buy another slot. Earn your keep and grow up.

I may or may not buy an extra slot, but even if I don't have that one extra char, I've still got a PvP slot and 5 PvEs that I can pwn charr with any day of the week.
If you're dedicated enough to the game to whine and call extra features "hidden fees", then you shouldn't have a problem with paying for another slot.

Quote:

Says team: "Lawlz; noob, shove off!" and kick.

So ka, eh? That doesn't even make sense. You would boot someone because they don't have a seventh/ninth slot? From what? PvE? So say I'm on my monk (which is totally equipped to do anything they need) but since I don't have a seventh slot (which has 100% nothing to do with the abilities of my monk, my current active char) they'll boot me with a lawl? PvP? If you don't have a PvP slot then that's your business, but if you can't play the build...regardless of if you have 1 slot or 100, you're not gonna get to stay with the team. Isn't that the way it's always been?

Quote:

Sounds like your account has a whole boatload of access than mine doesn't and you haven't bought another game to get it. Sounds like your account has a clear advantage over mine; no skill on your part, just part with 10 bucks. Sounds like Character slots increase content.

...ya 10 bucks for more char slots/storage...it's not much different than buying an extra pair of pants in the real world...do you complain because ppl have more pants then you too??

Quote:

And it still sounds like GW just became Pay to Upgrade...

EDIT: Anet is not losing money on this game. They've sold over 2 million copies in little more than a year and they're burping out expansions every 6 months from their business model. If you want more content and the ability to remain competitive, you buy the game and expand your existing account. We're not talking about Glowing hands or extra songs here from a third party vendor here; we're talking about content that will rapidly enhance a players overall ability to PvE.

Rest assured that I have no intention of flaming anyone for their views, for or against the inpending "update". But, in this case, I am guilty of seeking the discord of the masses. i know I'm in the minority; i don't care. I will be heard on this issue, and if a mod deems to lock this thread, it will only serve to proove that GWGuru is not the player=opinion friendly environment that all who dwell in it laud it as. Its another SoE site that shuts down anyone who disagrees with the GMs.

No one said Anet was losing money...but they do need to make it. With their current system, if a player buys the bare minimum he'll be paying just $100 a year, where other games that charge $15/month maintain about the same ammount of player activity and server space and get $180 a year. That's almost half the income for the same ammount of time and effort. (an in my opinion they actually spend more time and effort than other games.)

I don't see why it's wrong for a business to pay the bills and be rewarded for their effort. They're not slaves and they're not saints either that proclaim the mesage of "cheap gaming for all!!". One of the reasons they created this game is to make profit, and that's what they're gonna do.

PS: Close thread

silv3rr · Jul 25, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

...ya 10 bucks for more char slots/storage...it's not much different than buying an extra pair of pants in the real world...do you complain because ppl have more pants then you too??

Hahahahahahaha... Amen to that

Mesmer of DOOM · Jul 25, 2006, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

I'm not at all bothered by this. I doubt I'll be buying any character slots anyway, since I have two open slots at the moment. I just don't have time to deidcate to more then two or three characters anyway.

I won't get grumpy against ANet *unless* they don't provide a Factions-like "+2 slots" with Nightfall. I pay $50 for Nightfall, I expect to get a couple of additional character slots.

I agree with ChaoticCoyote. They skimp on the +2 slots for Nightfall, you can count me out.

One other thing...Doesnt anyone else think $9.99 per slot is kinda steep? I dont know database storage rates, but holy crap, I was thinking $4.99 and Id get a couple for the wife. At $9.99, forget it, Ill wait for Nightfall and pray.

Midnight08 · Jul 25, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

here i was thinking this guy would quit ater the 1st replies... but no, he's so full of himself that he replied, even after being proven wrong.

hey man, last i checked, what the team says in interviews isnt added into the EULA and such.... quit actin like a lawyer... they are offering a service to us all... it costs alot of money to keep databases running (where our char info is stored)... and more chars = more cost... $10 ea isnt asking much... personally i'll take 10 just cause i like alts....

then again i was subscribed to WoW, MXO, and Coh all at once a year ago(and barely played any of em)... i dont mind paying a bit for my entertainment...

hoyalawya · Jul 25, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Seems like a lot of people feel like the $50 initial cost they paid entitle them to get anything and everything ANet adds to Guild Wars. To those people, "this is not a charity." Agree with the TheMosesPHD, above, completely.

Burn Butt · Jul 25, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

What a jerk this poster is to make demands of a company providing us with a MUCH better deal than many other MMOs I can name. The bare MINIMUM that I've played a PvE character for is something on the order of 50 hours.... Are you seriously going to tell me that you can't cough up $9.99 for that? I don't look as a character slot as content at all. It's an above and beyond perk. I would gladly pay double for a slot. Maybe you should spend less time complaining in forums and go get a job where you can afford to shell out 10 lousy stinking bucks for that much entertainment.

lyra_song · Jul 25, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

I agree with MosesPHD

Pants. Definitely pants.

Zui · Jul 25, 2006, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batou of Nine

Purchasable Character slots do not equal in game abilities, nor an advantage
More slots simply means more options for PvE class usage and storage space.
In terms of PvP, absolutely no advantage, as any regular PvP'er has a dedicated PvP slot to roll whatver needed.
In terms of unlocking skills for PvP, sure you ahve more characters to run through PvE while unlocking skills. In the same amount of time to do that for all classes, one could use one single PvE chara in arenas, get easy Balths Faction and unlock to their heart's desires.
Storage space? More slots (which is only advantagious to PvE)? So whats wrong again?
Did i mention all the purchasable new content is OPTIONAL?
It is added content, not an upgrade, it is OPTIONAL added content (again!)

I'd rather stay out of a fruitless debate, but there are very obvious flaws in your list that need to be pointed out:

1 & 2) The OPs point is that more storage space is an advantage. Having a wider range of playable charactars is also an advantage. This is a fact. There are some areas where farming requires certain builds, being able to play any one of those bilds is a gigantic PvE advantage as it not only saves you time in finding a group, and allows you to play areas that you normaly would have needed to hench, in addition you get more storage space for rare items and ecto.

Now, if you don't think that being able to better play the market, maximise time actualy playing the game, increase farming productivity, and store more gold/ecto is not a gigantic advantage you're paying for, I just don't know what to say. I mean, not that big of an advantage right? It's only helping you to excell at everything that is the PvE endgame.

3) You're absolutly clueless when it comes to PvP aren't you? Well, let me explain this to you; at higher-level PvP almost everyone uses PvE charactars. Why? Switch armor, more weapons, more offhands, can switch runes if need be, for certain builds can get sub-level 20 pets... PvEs have a big advantage, there's just no arguing against it. If you don't beleive me, turn on GWTV and count how many PvPs you see top guilds running, then compare that to the number of PvEs.

4) Balthazar Faction is fairly slow to get, even in higher level pvp, and you can unlock ten times faster from PvE. You can earn say 10-20k faction a day in higher-level PvP, and that's not spending all day playing. You can certainly cap oh say, 6+ elites in the same time, and you can definently buy more skills from a trainer in a fraction of that time.

5) Sorage space = Playing the market/storing ecto = Making money = PvE endgame. Yes, PvPers do get an advantage from more charactar slots. They also gain an advantage from multiple accounts... But that's another story.

6) Yes, it's optional. You don't *need* to purchase it to play the game. However, if you want to maximise your time actulay playing, or make more money in PvE, it's certainly a huge advantage. For example, someone with Prophicies could have a Mesmer, Warrior, Elementalist, and a PvP slot. They wouldn't ever find a group for SF or ToPK, or if they did it would be *extremely* rare. So, by buying 3 more slots they were able to make a Necromancer, Monk, and Ranger. They can now farm anywhere and fill any role in any group! Oh, and you just increased your ability to play the market, and the amount of gold/ecto you can have. All for 30 bucks.

7) It's optional content that gives you a clear and defined advantage. That sounds like an upgrade, and heck, it even fits the defenition of one.

Now quite honestly, I can understand why ANET is going to charge for additional charactar slots, and why they're going to add them. They're a buisness and want to make money, storage space on servers is not free(even though it's probably very little space for a charactar), and of course they know people will buy them because it does give you an advantage, thus making it a very wise buisness move.

Infact, I actualy plan to buy a few myself. I sure want a few more slots for PvE charactars so I can PvP with them and not have to reroll all the time, and I already have my second account for storage/smurfing, but hey, more storage that's not a pain to withdrawl from sounds good too.

However, this doesn't mean that I don't understand where the OP is coming from.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 25, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Some of you take the whole "advantage" arguments to ridiculous levels. Anything can be used as an advantage. But it doesnt mean it's something that's mandatory for success. Nothing is completely balanced, fair and equal. It's impossible. And character slots are such a miniscule "advantage" that it's pretty damn petty to nitpick about.

TheMosesPHD · Jul 25, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

There is an advantage but the problem with the OPs original message and replies is that he wants all his advantages free of charge. The game may not be real life but the method of purchase is. And here in real life GW is a business that needs to make money, but despite that they still offer a better deal than other games. Paying $110-$120 in one year (and really that $110 spreads farther than a year since you can come back to the game year after year even if you don't buy future installments)if you want 1-2 extra slots, where other similar games will charge you $150-$180 a year and you can't come back in a few years free of charge like in GW.

The point is that the OP was overreacting and shouldn't be expecting everything free of charge.

Minus Sign · Jul 25, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by azunder

What the OP is saying is that extra slots are officially EXTRA but the advantage they give could be MANDATORY to success. Since everyone wants to succeed, it becomes unofficially mandatory.

A good example of this is PvE vs PvP chars. PvE chars are optional in PvP because PvP chars get the same gear. But, if you're really serious about PvPing, you'd want a PvE char because you get more items and armor in your backpack. The advantage it gives makes in mandatory for success (But player skill is a much bigger factor, of course).

But extra player slots? I don't think it gives you an unfair advantage.

That’s exactly my point, thank you. I am semi-serious about PvP, to the point that my monk has exactly what you describe; several weaponsets for certain builds and armorswaps that I can switch out at need. These modifiers range from AL to HP and mana, reduced dazed duration to any number of statuses that can be repaired more easily with a weapon set swap.

And she over half full on that already. All my PvE characters are clothes horses due to this game design, but my monk is by far the best example. Four separate sets of clothes+ 2 weaponsets for heal/prot with energy hiding weapons, enchant mods, AL mods, condition reducers…well, PvPing can become a rather heavy subject no matter which side of the argument you take.

This doesn’t include my necro, primarily a team farmer, mission runner. She’s full up on dyes and weapon mods. My mesmer (and PvP slot)? Greens from my farms that I haven’t unloaded. My warrior is in the same state that my monk is in; I can only thank Anet for the recent FREE update to storage so I can actually start holding more than just rare craft materials again. Rit is holding the rune bags for me, leaving my Ranger to carry unsold golds and collector/crafted weaponsets that I may need with future builds (and my minipets; I have 2). Of the 270 slots available to me at present, 217 (after a quick sale to the merchant of a few disposable blues and purples) are currently taken with items my PvE characters “need” for combat or with valuable items like runes, greens and dye that can prove a pain to trade for profit or to buy back in bulk when I need them. I know, I don’t NEED dye, but no1 likes to run around with Brown armor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

it's not much different than buying an extra pair of pants in the real world

We’re not so much talking about RL impact right now as the in-game effect this update will have. Speaking from that perspective, an extra pair of pants is more valuable than you seem to realize. But since you make the point so contemptuously; I’m not rich. There have been times in my life where I was not able to afford an extra pair of pants; a few dark patches where I couldn’t afford the clothes I wore. I have been hungry. I've been hungry because I had no food to eat and no way to get it beyond stealing it. Offtopic but so you know, when you get hungry enough, stealing doesn't seem that bad.

I am frugal with my money as a result and consider DSL a luxury item, Guild Wars a blessing because I love MMORPGs even though I really can’t afford 200$ a year for one game. 100$ a year? Budgetable for my income or kick--- pwn sauce.

I’m poor but I’m honest and that gives me pride. You got a problem with that, take it up with God when you see him. I don’t. Tis the hand I was dealt and I like my life. EDIT: it is, also, none of your RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tear

this is a simple case of him not wanting to pay for something he wants and, if i can't have it, no one else can!

Actually, as stated previously, I DON’T WANT IT IF I HAVE TO PAY EXTRA FOR IT. If I did, I’d go back to P2P and Pay to Upgrade games and pay--for--these--upgrades. They’re frankly of better quality than GW and, at least they’re honest about screwing me over.

@ Batou of Nine. Since you don’t seem to understand what I did in the second post, I will explain. I know they were disagreeing with me. That’s the way I argue; I wait for you to make an observation and then stand it on its head to show how your own statement supports my thesis. Those who know me call it cutthroat; I use your own stance to support mine, and next thing you know you’re either agreeing with me, backpeddling against the weight of your own words or just looking silly to those watching. It also allows the argument to evolve more freely. Instead of a one shot kill, I hit you from several sides and you don't know where i'm striking next. In forum, this allows me a measure of control within the thread.

Those who don’t know me call me a jerk, so, you’re not insulting me; don’t worry about that. I’m used to people getting pissed off and confused when they hammer at me. That’s how I win arguments

And now that you know what to expect…

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batou of Nine

In terms of PvP, absolutely no advantage, as any regular PvP'er has a dedicated PvP slot to roll whatver needed.

I think I’ve just shown you an advantage. You give me access to all 8 proffesions in Pve, I WILL do some damage. I ain’t the greatest player, but I ain’t bad neither. I can feel the lack when I use a PvP toon, the main reason why I run ranger, Warrior and Monk primarily is because 1: they’re my PvE stock and trade and 2: they’ve got the most diverse weaponsets for the builds I choose to run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batou of Nine

Storage space? More slots (which is only advantagious to PvE)? So whats wrong again?

As explained previously, these slots represent an advantage to PvE characters who choose to pay for them. THAT is the problem. Through no skill of your own your account has increased in its ability to outfarm me; your flexibility with builds for missions, farms, PvP, et al increases due to the addition of these slots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batou of Nine

There is so many more points i could add

Add them. Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoyalawya

Seems like a lot of people feel like the $50 initial cost they paid entitle them to get anything and everything ANet adds to Guild Wars. To those people, "this is not a charity." Agree with the TheMosesPHD, above, completely.

Read please. I include the 50$ every six months as revenue for Guild Wars, at which time players purchase more content upon upgrading their existing account. FYI: i do own Factions, it is set into my Prophecies accoutn and i had no qualms about doing it. This was how I understood Anet would intend to make money off me for a good long time. They get me hooked on the game and when I want more, I buy more of that game.

Added Character slots are not an Expansion/standalone. They broke their rules doing this; which means they can do it again and again and again. I won't be able to afford it if they turn this game into pay to Upgrade. My toons will suffer, my account will suffer and I will rage-quit is disgust. Its not fair. its' not honest. And I take offense.

Olfin Bedwere · Jul 25, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by azunder

What the OP is saying is that extra slots are officially EXTRA but the advantage they give could be MANDATORY to success. Since everyone wants to succeed, it becomes unofficially mandatory.

Which is total hogwash. I`ve played one character through all of Phropecies and some of Factions as has a friend of mine and niether of us are lacking for anything in this game. The accusations of the OP are proposterous and I don`t think he understands what hidden fees are. Hidden fees are when you pay for say bananas and a month later getting your credit card statement and find they charged you for having the skins on them but didn`t tell you that in the first place. Anet had no intention of offering more character slots till people started pleading for them. Maybe you haven`t understood that, PLAYERS ASKED FOR THE SLOTS. If you don`t want them then don`t buy them, easy enough to understand.

silv3rr · Jul 25, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Simply put, the people that want that extra "advantage" pays for it, those who don't want to pay shouldn't complain.

@Zui - You make valid points but "1 & 2) The OPs point is that more storage space is an advantage. Having a wider range of playable charactars is also an advantage. This is a fact. There are some areas where farming requires certain builds, being able to play any one of those bilds is a gigantic PvE advantage as it not only saves you time in finding a group, and allows you to play areas that you normaly would have needed to hench, in addition you get more storage space for rare items and ecto."

With the "extra" slots aside... If you want to be competitive in terms of farming capabilities, you make a character to farm. Everyone has made the SAME sacrifices of having to use up a slot to make a certain character for a certain build. Having extra slots has nothing to do with it (other than the storage capabilities), everyone has made those compromises. Extra slots = an option to expand your capabilities. It's your choice if you want to take this advantage or not. If you don't, you still have 4 slots to compromise with. One will just have to make that compromise and use one of their slots to utilize as a farming slot.

Your point is based upon the assumption that "everyone" but the OP will be purchasing extra slots utilized for farming which in turn is putting him at a disadvantage. If put in that perspective, I don't have the slightest bit of pity for the OP. But that's not the case is it? Like I've said above, MANY OF US have made that compromise to use one of our 4 slots (back in Prophecies) to farm.

But, you're right, the people that buy extra slots are obviously at an advantage, whether it be making money, or just storage. Versatility is power.

I have no input in regards to PvP as I don't PvP